In a crowded and competitive marketplace, the voice of a customer is crucial. Their opinion matters and will essentially make or break a new product launch. Being able to understand and pinpoint the needs of a customer will lead your organization to continued success. Tune in to hear, Fractional CMO, Angelo Ponzi, as he discusses how to navigate the market by using rationale and emotions to connect with customers while being able to identify what they want, and be prepared for any looming concerns that may arise.

  • 1:14 – The road to growth
  • 4:15 – Learning from chaos
  • 9:43 – Why the voice of a customer is crucial
  • 14:48 – The importance of a competitive intelligence program
  • 17:09 – Planning is easy, implementation is hard
  • 26:26 – How to walk & talk in a crowded marketplace
  • 30:35 – The emotional and rational standpoint


Full Episode Transcription :
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Angelo: (16:15)
You know, and I, and you know, I have a podcast and it’s about, for me it’s about education and essence learning and how can my listeners benefit as in your case benefit from someone like me or like you that can impart some wisdom in the, in the way think how would they went about, for example, growing their business and how can someone else learn from that? Ups and downs. A lot of my presentations are about growth and you know, I, I talk about the road to growth and I have this visual of this shows all these twists and turns and ups and downs, you know, rocks in the way. And because it is, it’s not a straight line. If it was, you know, we’d all be successful in business. And so how do you continually learn from those? My, my first business I was 23, I have this fantastic idea. These older guys, I was in doing some, I worked for an advertising agency and it was an opportunity to take it from the things I did in school to actually practical. I love the film business and I thought I’d take my marketing skills and go work for, you know, giant studio and I didn’t want to be an actor, but I wanted to be in production and you know, drive movies and you know, success and all that. So these guys at time, 23, they were 45, 46 convinced me that we can start up a film business in orange County, California. And in the strategy I was really ignorant at that time was like, well bring Hollywood to orange County and that didn’t work.

Angelo: (17:50)
I was in and out and eight months. But what I learned about business and what it took to, and not even the skill set that I have, it just business and understanding how to, you know, motivate and convince people that your idea is solid and get them excited about that aspect. You get them to join and you know, want it, have interest in and hopefully consideration and trial on what you were offering. I took that to heart and it was seven years later that I started my second business and it was as a consultant, I left the ad business and I worked, my consultancy was to other advertising agencies. So now I’m basically selling the people who had been in my situation and I was able to really understand their side, that I had to understand their motivation for bringing on someone like me. And I was able to craft and pitch myself and, and provide them solutions that would benefit their customers. That that propelled, you know, that day that I started that or a journey in about 20 years.

Todd: (19:00)
That’s fantastic. I’m going to go back to your first your learning experience from the film endeavor. Okay. Did you learn, were these two people that you worked with? Were they experts at their craft? Were they the ones that you learned from watching and emulating or did you just learn from the chaos of the knowledge you learn from the mistakes?

Angelo: (19:20)
It was from the chaos. You know, I, I call it a literal along the road or you know, dead bodies in some cases you make a lot of mistakes and you learn from those mistakes. In this situation, I was convinced, you know, cocky 23 year old that I understood the movie business and I understood marketing and these guys, one was an expert in production. One was a actually a well known Russian film director who had left Russia and was here in the United States. And so here I’m partnering up with people that were living and breathing it and how great was that going to be? It was going to be, the doors were going to open it and we’re going to be successful. Well they didn’t know anything about business.

Todd: (20:02)
Did they know about film? Were they good? 

Angelo: (20:04)
They knew about film, but what happened to me and, and they didn’t know any of that. They were just used to being called up and said, Hey, I got a job for you. So that the actual aspect of going out and knocking on doors and doing that stuff was, you know, foreign to them.

Todd: (20:27)
So then you fast forward it and you jumped in. What did you do along the way? The seven year stretch?

Angelo: (20:32)
Yeah, so I went back, so, so I went from there back to which was called and I think they’re still around called Bozell. And Bozell at the time was the, probably the 16th art did you say? You can see in the world. And so I went in there and, and utilized my more of my market research background and got into account service and account planning and a path forward a few years. One of my clients with me away and I went to the game of ad manager and then eventually international product manager and then decided I wanted to lead the corporate world and go back to the advertising business, which I did. And that was another five years I went in as an account supervisor and rose to VP of, of the company and the number two guy and then decided that I was going was not me and decided to start my own business again as a consultant. And an interesting, I interviewed a lot of agencies. If you could have this service, would you buy it? Oh, absolutely. None of those people I ever interviewed hired me.

Todd: (21:45)
So there’s a lot, there’s a lot of things I’d love to dive in there. What do you think it was, let me get into a little more about kind of who you are and what drove you to this as you were going through, you know, the film thing and in advertising what, what was driving you to focus on that? Like what was it about those endeavors that were interesting and drew you to them?

Angelo: (22:10)
Well, I mean, I, I’ve always been a lover of movies and I thought that it would be an exciting world. I didn’t come to California for that per se, but I thought, you know, here I was, you know, with Hollywood in my backyard. And I thought that would be, you know, a, a great career to get into that industry from a marketing standpoint. And Hey, maybe I could weed my way around to, you know, I thought I could be a film director and all that kind of stuff. I mean, you know, lofty, you know, had a Beehag right out of the shoot him.

Todd: (22:44)
And for those of you listening or watching, you don’t know the Beehag terminologies, big hairy, audacious goal.

Angelo: (22:52)
And I had that and I felt that that was a good passion for me. It’s something I’ll but you know, as time went on, I realized it was more about marketing that I really loved and I could do all these other things within an agency and we can do commercials, we can, you know, create brochures. I can do market research, I can create strategies and messaging. And so finding a home within the advertising world just made sense for me.

Todd: (23:19)
I love, I love it. And then you you seem to share that passion as, as I, it’s interesting, we’ve got some really interesting similarities. I was in the film industry, not hardly planned, but I was in visual effects right out of college. I started an engineering and graduated the film and English degree and went into animation and visual effects. But then I went into marketing and advertising and e-commerce. What I find very intriguing about your background, because I think it’s also something I am passionate about is the market research part. I think a lot of people go into marketing and advertising wanting to make stuff that looks great. And speaking of the film industry, right? You, your job is to make it look great, right? And there’s sort of two schools of thought in the advertising world at least like, do you want it to look great and be funny? Or do you want it to sell things? Right? So I really steered towards the activities that sold product. So I was a big fan of David Ogilvy and John Caples and Claude Hopkins, like some of these old legends of advertising. Joe Sugarman, who became a friend of ours. Did you find that like what was it that attracted you to market research? Because if someone’s, you know, outside of that world, that might not sound very exciting to me. It is. It’s very interesting because it’s scientific.

Angelo: (24:48)
Sure. Well, I learned early on that we could sit in a room and strategize and come up with a campaign and it wouldn’t it be great, wonderful. And then produce it and go out and sell it. The problem was we never actually asked anybody if they would buy it. And so the voice of the customer just became crucial. I mean, in those early days and like working in the restaurant with a, with a restaurant chain, one of the things I had my team do is actually go work at the restaurant as servers and counter people to understand what it was like to be on the other side. How much a smile meant versus you know, being passed something that was, you know, great food that Hey, you know, the person who looks like you’re mad at somebody. And so that immersion into the customer’s world was so important to me that, that it became really a core competency.

Angelo: (25:50)
And the essence of what I do is, as you heard my video, it’s insights brand and plan. And I think I even say in that order, there’s so many times I work with companies that want to start, they want to start with the implementation. It’s like Whoa, time out. Who are we talking to? What motivates them? You know, what’s going to separate you from the competition. All of those, you know, strategic issues that I feel are so important that we get at in order to develop the messaging, develop the strategies and ultimately the plan from convince you to buy a product or, or grow in a new market if I don’t know anything about the market. And so I always pushed to start there at a minimum, you know, customer interviews. I had a client a couple of years ago, 20/30 year old company in the software and you know, they, they did okay. They grew, they weren’t very big and so they had a lot of their eggs in one basket and they wanted to diversify. And so one of my things was let’s go talk to your customers, let’s find out why they buy you. It was one particular incident that I use in my speeches is I was interviewing one of their clients and I said, so you know, what’s it like to work with this company? They said, man, when we’ve got a problem, Becky’s right there. She takes care of it. You know, customer service is fantastic. Well how about the management? When’s the last time you talked to them? Man, I don’t know. A couple of years ago. As a matter of fact, you’re the first person that we would consider management that we’ve heard from and in a couple of years and, and I reported that back cause I heard it more than once and, and the company was like, Oh they love us.

Angelo: (27:34)
Yeah, but they don’t know you. They have no idea all the new products and services that you now offer because you’re only selling them one thing. And that’s another pet peeve of mine that most companies, their customers do not understand all the products and services that they sell. They get in, they sell them something and they just don’t take the time to educate what else they do. And, and so again, this is all revealed. I can tell from research how important a product feature is. A telemedicine company came to us and said we want to do some research. We need to understand what’s important to these docs. And they had 25 features that they were going to build into their product. Well, at the end of the day, through segmentation work and looking at docs younger than 50 versus older 50 and yada, yada, yada, they only needed five features, which shortened their time to market and also the money that they needed. If they had just gone on their own route, they would have created something that would have taken years to build. And most of this stuff wouldn’t have been important to either either segment of the market and so there’s always ways to get information to help really drive whatever those strategies are. Your positioning or you know, your longterm.

Todd: (28:55)
I love what you’re saying about having, having people go be a waiter at the restaurant. There’s nothing that compares to like hands on tacit knowledge like experience, right. When I’ve done a lot of website conversion rate optimization and the company that I worked for is legends. They’re just, they’re one of, if not the best CRO agency in the world. They’re over in the UK called conversion rate experts and I was the lead consultant there and they would follow a very similar process to what you’re talking about. Every single client that would come to work with us, the first thing we would do is go buy the product on the website like a regular customer because it’s, and it’s shocking how few people do that. And for your, for your work, it’s probably shocking how rarely management actually talks to the customers, the end user and those insights in there can be just gold.

Angelo: (29:53)
Well even from a competitive analysis, I mean, how do you know how to, what’s important and how do you message and position yourself if you don’t know what the competition is doing? That’s another big aspect that I do. I actually offer an ebook on my website and if you saw that on establishing a competitive intelligence program and it’s so important that it’s not a one and done, a lot of times we’ll say, well, you know, we’re going to develop our plans and you know, we need to do some competitive analysis. And I’ll say, well let me see what you’ve been working on. And they’ll, you know, dust something off from a year ago. And it’s like, well how do you know things haven’t changed or they’re not doing something different? Or how do you understand what’s important? I worked with a company that a senior living and one of the things we looked at was what were the competitors saying in messaging? And one of the things we were able to do was isolate what I call the anti. These are things you have to stay if you’re dealing with someone who’s independent living versus assisted living versus memory care. These are the antis that we determine. Everybody has to say now, once we determine what those key points were, now the question became is how do we say it? Let’s say it differently. How do we make it look, feel? So we look like we have something unique, but we know we have to say it. And if we say it just like everybody else, you know why us versus them. And so we would’ve never known that. And obviously this company didn’t know that cause they never took the time to go actually study their competition.

Todd: (31:22)
Yeah. So there’s, we’re talking about some real fundamental things that I think a lot of companies miss because they’re moving so quickly and they’re kind of in habitual cycles. They, they do the thing, they’re successful enough and oftentimes they miss these real foundational activities. And I’ve seen this coming from an entrepreneurial background myself and then moving into working with some really big brands. I’ve every single time I am astonished like I can’t believe they don’t have this figure out there. There are $2 billion company. Right. And what would you say like are a few really actionable foundational things that you see a lot of companies missing? I mean this would be one the competitive intelligence, which is, I’ll link to this on the, in the show notes cause this looks great.

Angelo: (32:14)
Thanks. yeah, there’s a book on storytelling there too, which, which is a, I think pretty good as well. Of course I did it. I think the fundamental things are is information gathering and understanding the market. I mean across the board. The other is, is really taking the time to plan. You know, I, in my presentations I talk, I use a phrase, I say planning is easy, you know, and the eyebrows all go up. But implementation is hard. One of the stats that I quote is that 90% of in this research study, 90% of executives said their strategies fail due to poor implementation. And so it’s understanding why, why did that happen? 90% are saying it’s not happening. Question becomes why in today’s digital world you can get access to information really instantaneously to understand why something is working, or not working or what’s what’s driving.

Angelo: (33:16)
And so the excuse of, well, I don’t have the time, the energy or the money to do anything. It doesn’t make any sense to me because even on a simple execution, it’s easy to get information. But I think that’s probably the biggest mistake. And I think I mentioned the other is I feel that that a company gets so focused on selling a particular product or service into a vertical, let’s say that they forget to ever mentioned or show the value, all the other things that they do. So leaving a lot of money on the table. I mean there’s really, I look at, one of the things I talk about is you can either sell more to the people you’re already selling to. You can sell for more, raise your prices, or you can sell to more than that’s opening up new markets. So where, you know, what is the aspect of how easy it is? Can you sell more to the people you’re already selling to? Which means you need to understand, maybe it’s not you, but maybe it’s somebody else in the company, you know, or if you’re looking at a account based strategy, I mean, are you really going up and down the elevators in a sense? And talking to other people in the organization that could maybe benefit from things that you have opening up new markets truly requires research. If you’re going to sell products that you already have, are you gonna have to create something new in order to open up this marketplace? So I think that’s, you know, those are some of the areas that I’ve see a constant failing and people sitting around and talking to themselves, they started to mention that it’s, you know, you sit in the boardroom and if you’re bantering around ideas and nobody ever asks the customers, there’s a story I tell about Vizio, where about the 3d television.

Angelo: (34:59)
And if you know that, that study? So when I, I think it was, I won’t give him all my dates right? But when avatar came out, you know, the 3D movies and everybody was excited and that was like the greatest thing since sliced bread. And it was Vizio, Abbott Panasonic and Sony all had this grace to market for the 3D television and Vizio won. And it sort of took off like crazy. A lot of the early adopters jumped on. But within, I think it’s five years, it went up and went down, was out of the market about five or six years later. And the question I asked my audience was, why? And it’ll take a while, but somebody will get it. And it was the fact that people didn’t want to wear 3D glasses all the time. And how simple that it came out. But unfortunately, after the product failed, and in the, in the research we found that the question actually came up during the meeting, one of the board meetings, what about the glasses? And the answer was, let’s not worry about it.

Todd: (36:04)
You mean before? 

Angelo: (36:04)
Before they even produced it.

Todd: (36:06)
Millions of dollars or billions of dollars were spent racing to market.

Angelo: (36:10)
Where if they had jumped out into and talk to the customers, they might have found that, you know, how would you feel about wearing glasses every day you want to watch television? Yeah, but I’m on. Right. And I’m sure people wouldn’t wear them during the entire focus group. Two hours later going to say is a pain. I don’t want to wear them. 

Todd: (36:31)
Forget it. Forget it. Oh, I love, I love stories like that. So you got, this is just, this is a lot of really good actionable insight here There was something you mentioned we might have to cut this whole part out. Oh, actually I’m gonna do a clap cause then they’ll be able to find this cut. I’m got a new editor. It’s so nice. So he actually goes in and finds the sound spikes and removes it. Is there anything we can just kind of garbage talk here for a second. Do you want to narrow in on anything? Is there anything I can kind of, you know, weave in to promote what you’re doing? You want to talk? Oh, I was going to say 

Todd: (37:10)
You’re sort of taking your own medicine by your, your language on your site is fractional CMO. That’s probably new language versus I’m a consultant, right? Because that’s working in the marketplace. The fractional CMO, I would imagine.

Angelo: (37:23)
Yeah. I mean that’s, I mean that’s, that’s a different aspect, right? Is not sitting on the outside and giving invites. We’re actually in the room and participating in what’s going on and, and, and from that standpoint, you know, it’s, it’s about immersing myself and, and you know, ingraining myself in the companies of people. See me as, you know, the guy down the hallway, not the guy that shows up once a week.

Todd: (37:48)
Yeah. Do you, do you want me to drill into that a little bit? What can, what can I do? We’ll, we’ll cut all this out right here. But yeah, I mean, no, 

Angelo: (37:56)
I think that, you know, there’s a, there’s a real value in, in fractional working with a fractional executive. I mean, so many times, especially in the small to medium sized companies that need that senior level, you know, strategist or executive to give guidance. But, you know, we don’t come cheap in the fulltime situation. And so it’s a way to really have that skillset at a fraction of the cost. And the other thing is you’re not really training anybody. And when we come packaged and ready to go, because you know, we know what we need to do in order to get those kinds of, so I think that what I’ve seen in, in, you know, everything from, from software to consumer products, I mean, it’s easy to plug myself into, for example, into a situation and get up to speed quickly. I understand market research, so I know how to go out and gather information, whether I’m doing it on behalf of the company or doing it on behalf of myself in order to learn. And, and typically, a lot of times they’re short term gapes, which is the three months, six months typically. But I, you know, I’ve had several that have gone two and a half years, 18 months because there, there’s an overall need and you know, now I’m ingrained. I, I used to it or my early days on, I was trade for equity. I didn’t stop doing that. But in this one particular company I did and I traded for a 5% of the company for lowering my fees because I really believed in what they were doing.

Todd: (39:33)
Did it pan out? 

Angelo: (39:34)
What’s that? 

Todd: (39:35)
Did that one pan out? Was that a good move on your process? 

Angelo: (39:37)
It’s still going. So I think we’ve got a few years before it actually can be determined. I have a lot of Pieces of paper with a lot of equity and companies that don’t exist anymore. But I thought this one was worth the gamble. 

Todd: (39:52)
You only need one. Right? 

Angelo: (39:54)
That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. And so, you know, participation in, in those organizations that you know, is really fulfilling for me because again, I get to use all my skills and to understand their needs. And a lot of times there’s, there’s money for marketing and sometimes I work with companies that have very little money and so we’ve got to create strategies and tactical execution that they can implement. You know, for basically their internal labor. A lot of fun. And I’ve been doing it five years on, on six in this particular capacity. So it’s been fun.

Todd: (40:35)
Yeah. That’s great. With your, your expertise in market research and gathering data and presenting data, what are some things you’ve learned over the years that have helped you with knowledge transfer? So you go, you know, you go get an immense amount of research. You mentioned before the call, the company used to work out where they did 500 plus hours of research on a, on a very small, and was it an advertisement or?

Angelo: (41:06)
Well no, that was the analyst, the analyst had to train for 500 hours in order to even implement pro bono.

Todd: (41:11)
So that’s even before they spend the time, 

Angelo: (41:13)
Before they spend time doing the analysis.

Todd: (41:16)
See you have a bit of background in immense amount of time going into sometimes I would imagine coming up with a very small but very valuable piece of information. What sort of murky take to getting all that research and transferring that knowledge to someone?

Angelo: (41:31)
Yeah, so the reason I focus on insight to brand and plan is is I’ve learned over the years that if I’m engaged in all the research, the transfer, all that knowledge becomes a little more difficult. But I already have it. So I usually get hired if I’m, if I go in as just doing research, I would say 99% of the times I’m hired to do all the brand work because they already understand it. So really it’s about taking all that information and synthesizing it down into those nuggets and showing how you know that messaging is different and unique. And I, I’d actually just made a presentation a couple of days ago of four months worth of work coming up with, with the company’s brand positioning and their messaging and in their value statements and how they are going to kind of walk and talk in the marketplace because they need to expand or they need to solidify their current market.

Angelo: (42:35)
And there’s been a lot of confusion about what they really stand for. So they spend doing stuff now anything that’s done is now based on a plan, not only an external plan, but an internal plan. I’m a huge believer in internal education that people need to understand what you know, the marketing department and the company in general is doing because everybody sits around. I mean, there was, I don’t know, 40 people in this room and one of my points to them, and you walk out the door today, every one of you are a brand ambassador for this organization. Not just talking about the job that you do, but the company and the value you bring to help your customers do a better job with their customers, right? If there’s an ending on who they are and the end user. And that’s the other thing I always look at is not what you want to say, but what’s the value to the customer.

Angelo: (43:26)
So I worked with a Christmas company that made the big giant decorations and I can see it, malls and stuff like that. And, and they, you know, their website was about, you know, we have these great trees and these great lights were wonderful and were great to buy from us. And I remember my first meeting, I said, who cares? Who cares with what you need to care about is what your customers and the experience their customers are having. Right? If I go to a mall and take my kids and they have this, you know, they can do selfies and all these Christmas decorations and beautiful trees and I’m taking pictures and I want to go back. Well that’s the customer experience. That’s an experience that malls want their customers to have. So everything we need to do needs to speak to that. If you can talk about your customers will have memories that they’ll live on forever. Now you want that to happen indirectly. You’re going to use our stuff, right? But you’re trying to create that emotion enough. And again, looking at rational appeal and emotional appeal, emotional appeal is so strong and everything needs to be routed and rooted in that because it’s important that I get this emotional connection, whether it’s software, it doesn’t really matter, right? How am I emotionally connected or invested in your product and service? 

Todd: (44:52)
You know, I can see now I know why you have that story section on your website. I can see you like visibly just lighting up as you’re talking about the emotional part of it. And I, I absolutely love the statement, who cares, right? Like, cause you just get people that drone on and on about their features and benefits and how great it is. And we do this and we did that. And I, I’ve done this with sales teams before. I don’t, mine is a little different than who cares. It’s just so what, right. So our, our product does blank. So what? Well, because it does this and this. So what, right. Like if you keep drilling down, it gets to an emotion. Like so you can spend time with your family cause your tree lights aren’t going to go out because they’re actually made really well. And you won’t have to ruin your Christmas.

Angelo: (45:40)
Right, right. There is a blog on my website so I can get the actual title books, something to do with laddering. Talking about laddering and, and looking at the kind of the functional aspects of the rational aspects of a product and feature. How do you ladder that rational side up to the emotional side of a to, to the emotional benefit, if you will. So I’m a whatever VP of something and I hire a brand. There’s always a rationale and emotional decision that’s being made, right? The old saying you used to be you can’t get fired for buying IBM. Right? And so if you look at how do I make that emotional connection on something that’s, you know, very tactical and that’s where laddering comes into effect as, how did you move that through the rational to the emotional? So there’s an emotional benefit. It could be a new job, it could be a promotion, it could be more money keeping my job. I mean, if there is a rationale when someone’s making a decision to purchase something, if you will, or sign on a new partner. I mean, I would imagine the same thing. I, the guy that just hired me for a software company, I’ve known him for four years and we’ve worked together on some research things and he went into this new company from being a consultant as the VP of business development. And as soon as they said, you know, we really need to up our marketing game. He said, I got the guy for you. Right. Cause he knows from an emotional standpoint and a rational standpoint that he can count on me, that I’ll deliver on what his needs are and he’s gonna look good in the eyes of their management. Right. Versus Hey, I heard about this guy. I don’t really know him. Let me bring him in.

Todd: (47:30)
He can expand into different markets. No, it’s like, I mean you sold me already, the just the emotional part and it’s what separates just like truly valuable players such as yourself who take the time to figure out something that’s going to be unique and he’s going to stand out and be memorable from just like, Oh I know how to gain the Facebook ads and get you a little higher on the placement and get a couple of cents less per click. Like that stuff is great in the short term, but the long term, the things that get you to really connect with the brand and remember that brand and have have that emotional tie, the deeper stuff, the story, the that ladder. I’m going to definitely, we’ll link to that article. I’m a now I’m going to dig through your whole website.

Angelo: (48:14)
The storytelling article I think is really good and I actually just did a podcast on storytelling and it is, it’s about telling stories that are relevant and that people can emotionally connect. I just did a podcast in actually it’s, a book that I’m working on and it’s, my dad was Homer and it’s called life lessons from the number one plumber and the number two industry. And I talk about him and watching him as an entrepreneur and you know, the things that he had me do as a kid which I probably hated most of them, but how it became relevant when I got into business. And so I’m actually now people have heard the podcast and say, that sounds like a book. Let’s move on with that. So I’m going to try to really blow that out. But the stories are just all emotional. And I just did another one called the lighter side of life. It was, you know, the end of the year. And I thought, okay, I’ve been talking about business for, you know, whatever 51 podcasts or more, I’m going to do something and just tell stories that I think are interesting and funny. And so and I’ve been looking, you know, it’s still banking fairly high. Completely different. But it’s just story. And if you, if you listen to that, you learn a whole lot about me.

Todd: (49:28)
That’s awesome. I’m definitely gonna look yeah, I just can’t say how much I resonate just with the fact that you get that there’s so many people that and me included, a lot of times I skip over that because I’m in, I’m a very technical marketer, right? And I’ve done a lot of AB testing and research, but sometimes you get buried in analytics and lead gen and things like that that you kind of forget that it’s all about humans. It’s human connection. I have to introduce you to one of our former guests and a friend of mine, Gerry Lantz he, his company is called stories that work. So if you’re listening or watching, definitely check out that episode of the podcast. I’ll find the episode number, just a second. But Gerry’s an old ad executive as well. And it just, it’s story. He weaves these tales and once you, once you’re in emotionally you’re sold, you know. Yeah, I can do a whole other episode on your father too. I would love to dive in and learn more about what you learned from him.

Angelo: (50:34)
Well, listen to the podcast and then we can talk. Cause I mean I think people that have listened to it you know, I’ve gotten messages and say that was really heartwarming. I met the engineer when I was doing the podcast when I was, I could see there were a certain section, he started crying. And so I asked him, why were you crying? He said, cause you were making me think of my father and the things that my father told me and you know, so that was really interesting and part of, you know, what we do in this podcast today and what you do in your podcast and mine is we’re trying to make some kind of emotional connection that people want to continue to tune in, that they build a relationship with you. And they go, okay, I really liked listening to the show and learning something. I like the way he does it, you know, whatever that is or that kind of that rational side. But I’ve listened to podcast and it’s like, I like the content, but man, I just, it just not working for me and I just can’t get emotionally connected to it. It’s just give me two factual or whatever it happens to be. I mean, think about what podcasts, if you look at the kind of, the structure of podcast, I mean it’s mysteries and crime and comedy, and art sections, like 13% of all podcasts are about business. Yeah, it’d be more of it. It’s not. And so when you think about those guys that are rambling on Gil Rogan, you know, two and a half hours or something, you know, it’s all, you know, that kind of emotional and craziness and the people love listening to and so far that, you know, what I do in mind is I try to make light, have some jokes and, and, and do things that I think are interesting. I’ve had three drinking show.

Todd: (52:17)
You’ve had three what?

Angelo: (52:17)
Drinking shows.

Todd: (52:22)
Oh, very cool. Yeah, I’ve got, we get a dive in. Okay. So I’m going to link to all this in the show notes, but where if people want to follow up and listen to the podcast and talk to you about maybe doing some market research or coming in as a fractional CMO or you know, any of the number of things we went over and more, where do they go? 

Angelo: (52:42)
Yeah, so the, the easiest is y business website, which is the on there, there’s my podcasts, there’s the videos for the podcasts, there’s all my articles, my blogs my eBooks also LinkedIn is, is another great way to connect with me. And you know, another set of things there. I do have the show, it’s called the business grow cafe and I do have a link to my site there as well. But typically I had the feeder that everything just gets populated onto my website to make it easier. I do shoot videos, which is interesting. Out in California there’s a new law called AB5, which are the independent contractor is usually the state of California. And after Uber, Uber and Lyft and basically are saying your, your drivers are employees, not contractors anymore. Oh, is that new law that went in? It’s a big fight. I did a show on and I have an article on it, but interestingly enough, you know, and I do the bits, shoot the videos and I publish them, you know, I might get five people watch them, 10 people watch and not a lot. I think up until recently, my highest was 67 and it was a sales guy. That pod, the video for the podcast for this law has been watched over 300 times. It’s, it’s crazy to me. And so, you know, so I tried to create, you know we’re content creators, right? So how can I create content that I can use in video and audio and a lot of times I’ll take my shows and I asked standard questions of all my guests and I’ll edit those into shows. So the best business advice or what keeps you up at night, those kinds of things.

Todd: (54:29)
Oh, this is some great stuff for your Angelo. I really enjoyed it. We should sideline and just discuss how we can collaborate in some way. This has been really, really fun.

Angelo: (54:41)
Yeah. I’ve enjoyed this conversation and yeah, I mean I think that makes a lot of sense. There’s a, you know, a lot of other things I’m working on that I think you’ll find interesting. 

Todd: (54:51)
Great. All right man. Well thank you so much for taking the time. Really appreciate it. And and it was, it was great to talk with you today.

Angelo: (54:57)
Yeah, you too. Thank you so much. 

Todd: (54:59)
You got it. 

Angelo: (55:00)
All right. Bye. Bye. 

Todd: (55:01)

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