Today’s guest is Steve Cunningham from Read It For Me, a “Book Summary” company that gives you access to all the juiciest parts of the best business and leadership book in 12 minutes.
Grab the special LIFETIME OFFER for Read It For Me here: https://readitfor.me/learntowin
When Steve started a company, he thought he was going to be mainly serving entrepreneurs and people who are looking to become successful. But what he found out was the complete opposite, his clientele turned out to already be some of the most successful people on the planet.
These people (many on the Forbes Billionaires list) were already at the head of their class, they were leading big teams, running corporations and they were extremely successful by any measure. Today, we talk about how Steve has made this interesting shift from a company that he thought was going to be focused on just delivering small summaries to people for a monthly fee to a company that has a unique way of measuring how the most successful people learn, how often they go back to their material, what they do with it, and how they integrate it into their life. Here’s a sneak peak at what we cover:
- 7:21 – The gap between consuming info & practicing it
- 10:19 – How the most successful people learn
- 12:15 – The effectiveness pyramid
- 14:26 – Defining the “desired result”
- 19:14 – “Practicesizing” makes perfect
- 28:30 – The 5 stages of growth
- 33:13 – Knowledge vs. action + behaviors
Drive – Daniel H. Pink
Full Episode Transcription:
So I’m super excited, Steve, to have you back for your second appearance on one of my podcasts and I’m really excited to see what you have going on with read it for me and and what you’re doing with yourself these days. Thanks for coming on.
Thanks for having me. Good to be back.
Yeah, so we connected I guess first for my luminary business podcast a couple of years ago, but I have always been a fan. Steve’s company is Read It For Me, which is readitfor.me is one of my favorite learning tools. I saw how you progressed as a company and I kind of sensed how you progressed as an individual because I think I saw your company when you just had a handful of book summaries on there. And now there’s, you know, micro courses, master classes. How many books do you have on there total? There’s hundreds, hundreds of titles, most of which have audio and video and fun animations and a lot of them have exercises to do afterwards. So Steve, how did you get this idea for this company and why do you do what you do, and what are you doing now?
Well, like everything in my life, it was a complete accident, so nothing I do is with some grand master plan in mind. I, as I always tell my story, it started off with me being a lawyer for exactly one week. And I think I have a world record. I’ve haven’t checked with VNS yet, but it’s on my to do list.
So it was my claim to fame is that I was a lawyer for exactly one week, not about one week. Exactly one week. And if you can circle back into my law school days, if you don’t have anybody who’s been to law school versus Laura, they’ll tell you that lots of schools all about consuming hundreds of pages of reading every single night and then getting ready for the next day to be prepared in class to be called on it and ripped apart by your professor. And so that, that happens for three years and you get very good at just summarizing a lot of information very quickly and finding the main points and these hundreds of pages of reading. And so graduated law school stuck around for exactly one week as a got called to the bar. It was a lawyer then I joined a family business, my, my father’s small signage company.
And at the time I didn’t really want to do signage for the rest of my life. And so I tried to figure out what am I going to do next. And I created a small marketing agency inside the company and as I would in during that time, and my father also made me the president of the company, which was not one of his brightest canoes in his life. And I, I had no idea how to run a business. So I just went out to the bookstore and I bought as many business books as I could and I copied exactly what I did in law school, which was, I would summarize those books into what I now would call a summary, but I was just taking notes and taking out the main points so that I could go back to them later.
And so fast forward to the marketing agency, this was around the time of social media was starting to become a big thing. I got to become a speaker to keynote speaker to conferences because at that time I was like, I had a few thousand Twitter followers and then, well, like I must know everything about social media, so we’ll know. I can talk about it. So again, complete accident. And out of those keynotes I would, it’d be very easy for me to get many meetings to talk about how they might use social media for their business. And this was before there were any case studies and everybody knew exactly how to do it. And so anyway, I can go into those meetings, which are typically VPs of marketing or CEOs. They would always have a stack of books on their desks. And because I had invariably read one or two or three of them, I would say, what did you think about that idea from that book or this idea from this book?
Trying to do some rapport one-on-one in a sales process? Because I was one of the things I would read on one of those books, so they would sheepishly admit that I haven’t read that book and I haven’t read that other one. Then I got soccer practice to take my kids to like, man, I just don’t have enough time to keep up. And so as I was trying to sell them social media consulting services, I would say, you know what, here, I’ll send you a summary of the book. I made one for myself and maybe you’ll find it valuable too. And during those conversations through which we would close very little social media to consulting deals, they would always say, man, I’m so busy. I wish somebody would just read it for me. And so that’s where our name came from. And eventually we started to get requests for different books to be done.
That community, this book or can you do that book as well? And people started asking us if they could pay us money to do books. And so we just had the bright idea that we’d take some of those tournament video and see what would happen. And if all went well, they can also be a social media case study for our agency to grow the business. So it was all, it was all a complete accident. We put up with PayPal paywall, people started paying us at the time I cold email Tony Shay, the CEO of Zappos and said, can I interview interview for your book? And, and also by the way, would you buy this for your employees? So they became our first corporate customer. And ever since then we’ve just been fumbling our way through life and business trying to make things better.
And and that’s how, and that’s how we do it. And so fast forward to today and I think we can get into this story a little bit as well if you want to. We, we realize that there’s an enormous gap between consuming information and putting it into practice and then making sure that that practice creates better results. And so we’ve slowly been peeling back the layers of the onion on growth and development and have made a bunch of significant changes to what we’re up to and how we’re helping individuals and companies grow.
That’s phenomenal, man. I love your mission. And, you know, I think of just something that always kind of sticks with me is the difference between information, knowledge and wisdom, right? It’s like you gotta you gotta you can’t just sit there and consume and consume and consume and consume and you, you, you store a lot of facts in your head, right? Um, which some leave very quickly if you’re not actually putting them into practice. Um, but even if you remember them, but you don’t execute on the lessons that those facts are teaching you, um, it doesn’t really do you any good. Right? So yeah, I would love to go, go deeper on that. How do you go from, you know, especially with a company like yours, right? Cause people are saying, I don’t want to read the 300 page book. I just want to read the, the really concise summary and it’s almost like cheating in some ways, right? But if it’s, if it’s with a specific outcome in mind like I want to read Daniel Pink’s book just comes to mind because I think he’s testimonial on your site engage, is that his book? Is that the name of Dan Pink’s book?
It’s got a number of them that drive to drive and that’s when I was thinking of, Drive. I was the one that I think was most popular one.
Yeah. So like as a leader, if you want to figure out how to motivate and drive your team, you know, you can take his whole book and summarize it in a small thing, but how do you actually like execute on that? So how are you bringing that? How are you teaching people how to do that?
So there’s, there’s about 50 ways we can get into that conversation. But I’ll, I’ll, I’ll start with kind of a very broad thing and I’m gonna kind of continue to strike. I think the context helps. So the, I, because of the, the service that we provide, what we find is when we initially started, we thought it would, this would be a service for people who would want to be successful someday. And what we realized was that the people who were buying it from us were people who were already successful. So I had this huge customer list of people who were on the Forbes billionaires lists and leading amazing entrepreneurial companies. And so the people who are already successful were the ones who are using it. And so that’s got me somehow access to some of the world’s most successful people to understand how they learn.
And I didn’t, I wasn’t smart enough to start asking those questions right away. It took me about five or six years to realize that, Hey, maybe I should ask them how they’re using these summaries because maybe they’re not using them in the way we think they’re using it. And so I, that started a journey of understanding how the world’s most successful people learn. And it’s much different than how most other people learn. And so what I realized, and it nothing that I’ll say here is going to be new or revolutionary. And kind of what I want to try to impress on people when I’m talking about it is it’s not so much whether or not, you know what I’m about to tell you. It’s like are you doing it and is this part of your practice? That’s what matters. Because you can talk to somebody about the principles from the seven habits of highly effective people.
And most successful people are quads and successful people who’ve read that book. That doesn’t really matter. What matters is like are you continuing to practice those things? And so, so kinda so with that in mind that that’s one of the things that successful people do is they have a purpose for other reading. They don’t just mindlessly consume information. They have a problem that they’re trying to solve. And so, um, that’s why one of my biggest pet peeves now is the list of books that famous CEOs put out. And then everyone thinks that you all, we should read those books too, because guess what, bill Gates does not working on the same pro. He’s reading specific books to work on problems that he’s working on right now. You are not working on those problems. That’s probably not the best breeding, less for you to be working off.
You should probably pick something that’s relevant to something you’re trying to accomplish, like around like now. So that was one of the big insights for me. And so then once you realize that it starts you on a journey to figure out, okay, that’s, that’s where they’re starting from. How do they get to where they want to go from there? And so kind of moving back into the story, what I, when we first started talking to companies, they would always talk about this thing called the Kirkpatrick evaluation model. And I don’t know if you’ve bumped up against this in your work, but it’s this pyramid and there’s different levels of effectiveness. And they would always tell us, well, here’s how we’re going to evaluate your program. And depending on which level you’re at this, you know, you’re more valuable to our company if you’re closer to the top of the pyramid.
And just to, we don’t have visuals right now, but I’ll just walk through it so folks can understand what I’m referring to. So level one is at the bottom of the pyramid and that’s reaction, which is did people like the training? A level two is learning, which is the, did we walk out of the training with some new concepts? And so this could be, you know, watching a video. This could be attending a live lecture or training or workshop, whatever a level three is, did it change your behavior? Level four is did this produce the intended results, hopefully results that are beneficial to the business. And so I had assumed from the get go that well, everybody’s talking about this. They must be doing all those things. They must be tracking all of these things. And so I never, again, I, I’m a very slow learner.
It took me a very long time to ask people like, well, tell me how you’re tracking all of that stuff. And as it turns out, most people are not tracking hardly any of that stuff they’re tracking. Actually it is this invisible levels zero that most programs get evaluated against. And there it, it’s, yeah, so the, there’s this invisible level zero, those are people actually consuming the training. That is the standard that most companies are judging against. And what I found was that although some level one, you know, we could debate this, I don’t know what your opinion is on this. Like it almost doesn’t matter. Like who cares if you, it’s not really relevant if you’d like it or not. Is it, does it create the intended result? And I think if you work from the bottom up, which is like people are not consuming the training, we’ve got to figure out ways to get them to consume the training.
And then we’ve got to get people to figure out how do we get them to like it and then get the knowledge. That is one way to approach the problem. The other way they approached the problem is define the result that you want and then start pulling from the top up. So you start with, you define, okay, we want people to sell more. What behaviors are required for them to sell more or define those behaviors and that, what knowledge do we need in order to get people to sell more? And if you compare it to a sales rep that if you take this training your results, thus your salary or your bonus is going to go up, they’re going to do it. So the level one and level, the invisible level zero becoming irrelevant if you start from the top. So with all that in mind I recently went back to a lot of customers who were having trouble getting people to use our content.
And I would ask them, well, you know, I know you’re using a bunch of other, this content you’re evaluating against this, the scale. Like, can you, it’s an embarrassing question, but can you tell us how you’re getting such great results with those other programs? And he answered every, every single time was a, we’re not, in fact, we’re using your service because everybody tells us they don’t have enough time. And we thought that this would solve the problem, but it didn’t. And what I learned is that nobody tracks behavior. And I want to say nobody, but people who do track behavior who say they track behavior actually just send surveys out asking people that applied anything that they learned from that training it took six months ago, which is not anywhere close to tracking behavior. And if you don’t track the behavior, you’ve got no way to figure it out or produce the results that you’re looking for.
So almost nobody, and I would say definitely nobody if, if I haven’t scripted the entire planet, which I haven’t done yet, almost nobody is doing anything remotely resembling that model. And so that for us was, you know, an opportunity to start thinking about how do you, how would you do that? How would you track behavior to then track results? And I had let us into just looking at how the world’s most successful people did it and looking in different areas of the psychology and biology and other practices where it’s very important for people to create results. It’s like when you’re flying an airplane, it’s very important that the airplane lands safely. And so there are certain things that they do in that environment for pilots to make sure that that happens. And then surgeries and and as it turns out, that is just what those types of behaviors is what the world’s most successful people do. And so that is what we’ve been working on for, I’d say the past eight, eight to 12 months. And constantly refining how that would happen and how we could make that work for, for companies. And so we’ve too early to say that we’ve cracked the code, but we’re, we’re helping companies now make progress to figure out exactly how do you pull people up that chain rather than trying to push them up, which is a much different approach.
Yeah. Man, I love what you were saying here and there’s, there’s so much synergy. I’ve been in a lot of discussions with the scrimmage team. Scrimmage is the partner or sponsor you could say, of this podcast. And Derek, my cohost, who’s not on with us today is the CEO. I’ve been learning quite a bit about more of the technical side of that tracking, right? learning about, do you know about LRS learning record stores, things like that. So Scrimmage has been around for 10 years, so they’ve been tracking or storing, storing data on the learning behavior and engagement. You know, results, some of the results, not the actual applied results in the business, but the results within the app where people are taking quizzes and doing challenges and gamification and things like that, but one of the things we are kind of in the middle of, of brainstorming on and figuring out is how to close the loop, how to actually tie it to sales metrics and analytics on the website and, and make a really clear picture of the behaviors of the most successful people in the company. So they can, you know, when they bring a, bring a new product to market, they can look back at the way that people who did the training did the learning,uengaged with the, with the tools. So you can kind of guide your people to do what was most successful holistically.
Yeah. That’s really the, that’s the game. And I was reading an article recently called the, it’s called the transformer CLO
Yeah. Yeah. I just as a funny myself. Yeah.
And so in the, in the article they’re talking to like, here’s your all day is forward thinking best practices that CLS are using to move from just you know, compliance training to we actually want to make an impact on business results. And now initial statement where I say this, like I spent a lot of time on the other side of this equation trying to push up the Hill. So I, whenever I need to qualify whenever I say with that, because I, it took me a very, very long time to try to get on the other side of this discussion. But one of the things that they point out is like as this as though this is some special, amazing best practices that you should put the business need in the center of the learning experience and well, of course you should. Like, how else would you do it?
And that if you don’t start from now, you’re not going to get the results. So I think there’s just needs to be a shift in thinking from starting from the bottom and trying to push up and starting from the top and then producing the training or buying and the training that would produce the behaviors that you know will produce the results. So it is a very, it changes everything when you start from that element. And I, and I use it, here’s a very quick example. Like one of the things we’ve been thinking along and hard about is like a lot of people talk about micro content. And one of the, and we don’t really have a good word for this yet, but it’s the, the current word we’re using, it’s practicesizing. Content. And content should not be short or long. It should be however long it needs to be in order to teach you a new behavior.
And so here’s an example. One of the, one of the books I’ve read on how to have a better marriage the author, the author is famous for being able to tell with, I think it’s 95% accuracy if he just observes a couple of, for 45 minutes, whether or not they’re going to get divorced. And which, which seems like a nice parlor trick. But what he’s actually looking for when he’s observing is how, what he calls people respond to bids for attention. So you you’re working at home, your wife comes in, she starts to tell you a story about something that just happened to her. And you have a, you have a choice on how you’re gonna respond. You’re going to like turn to her and like sigh and like you’re gonna give her kind of your attention, but it’s clear that she’s interrupting you and you’d prefer just to get back to your work.
Now it’d be called turning away for attention, or you stop what you’re doing and you start asking your questions as though you might be interested in what she has to say. That’s turning towards the attention or the did for attention. So, and I, I don’t know how long it took me to say that, but that, that is that is the thing that causes marriages to fall apart or not. And with any alarming degree of accuracy. So two for that and there’s nothing else you need to know like that. That’s all the training unit now you need to start doing it. And the more, the more you practice that and get that into your daily routine, the better your marriage is going to be. And so the and so the content needs to be as long as it needs to be in order to teach the new behavior and then somebody needs to go and practice it.
And the way it’s, which is fine if you’re doing one, but as behaviors start to pile onto one another because the other thing that most people don’t think about is you only get the results for as long as you practice the behavior. Like as soon as you, as soon as you revert back to what you were doing before you stop getting the results. And not that is the part that the world’s most successful people have figured out. And one of the first people to figure that out was to a limited extent was Benjamin Franklin who had his I think it was 13 virtues. I was 13 or 12, and it was 13. And so what he did was he said, you’re the, you’re the behaviors that I would like to create in my life. I’m going to just write them down and I’m going to track whether or not I did them every day.
And the tracking is what causes that behavior. And so there’s a whole bunch of research in the, in schooling children. That self assessment is one of the biggest, highest correlations to positive performance. So anyways, the, it becomes a game of how do we, how do we get people to change their behavior versus how do we best impart information to people? And you can’t, you can’t separate those two things, but most people do. And if you look at me, if you look on most personal development blogs or personal development movers, it’d be like, yeah, of course you gotta take action. You’ve got to take massive action. But that’s it. Like that. That’s, that is the advice. And that is by far the hardest part. And there’s a, there’s an enormous amount of discipline and steps required in order to do it right, that most people have not figured out. And that’s, that is the difference between having a successful training program that produces successful leaders.
Yeah. And so without that repetition, I think like the massive action is really important to like, get to just like out of your shell, out of your comfort zone to do something new. But then like, it takes that massive action to start something new or start a new habit, but then it’s kind of the flywheel effect, right? Once you get the momentum going, you can’t just stop, but you don’t need to constantly take massive action. You just need to push the flywheel, push the flywheel. So a little bit of training and reminders in those 13, you know, with Ben Franklins 13 principles, you know, he’s something you wanted to do every day if you didn’t have to do something like extraordinary in all 13 categories every day. But just something to remind that that’s an important thing. And that’s a great analogy with the with the relationship. What was that called? Turning, turning away or turning towards, turning,
Turning, turning towards bids for attention, I think. And I think I’ve got the words right, but I’m not sure. Yeah.
Yeah. So that’s, that’s really fascinating. So in terms of the actual delivery method of this or the software that you’re building or the assessment or tool. Are these reminders like when someone goes through one of the, the short term there are, there are about 12 minutes, right? 10 to 15 minute summaries.
Yeah. So what we’re, what we’re actually producing with the, we’re disassociated from the content production team because it, it really doesn’t matter what the content is or this is an approach to taking whatever content you want to learn and doing it that way. Although what we’re going over, the things that we’re doing is helping people that have training programs, like I said, practicesize, the content that we should be training people how to do things that are as opposed to teaching people collections of content. So as an example, like a book for the most part is a bad format to teach people how to do new things because any book is a collection of tens at the lowest stand or hundreds of ideas and you can’t, so you can’t do drive, you can only do one of the ideas and you can only do those one at a time.
And it didn’t. So the, this format that most training is delivered in actually it doesn’t help and it hinders because most people come away. There’s the old cliche that if you only just apply to one thing from this book or from this training course, that every time you went through that like it’d be worth its weight in gold. And in fact most people will do zero. And the reason they do zeros because they try to do 10 or 20 or 30 and then it falls apart and then now they’re, you know, they find themselves back at a weekend long retreat that they did last year, the year before because lo and behold, their life has not been transformed. So and, and it, and it really just goes back to how we were taught how to learn in school. Cause I, that is how we were taught how to learn. And you do something for 1520 years, every single day, it’s going to become your way of doing things. And so, you know, you have to unlearn how you’re taught, how to learn if you want to actually make progress. I don’t know if I’m making sense of that.
No, absolutely. I’m curious to get a little more clarity on what you’re doing. So are you building out one sort of universal training methodology that someone can apply to anything? Or are you customizing it for someone who already has a training course or are you creating one individual practice sizing module for the book or for the content? Or are you building something that allows people to just put in their own pieces? Like, I want to develop a habit in this, or I learned about this great marriage strengthening technique and then the tool helps you integrate and reminds you about those things. I want to know what it is. What do you got cooking here, Steve?
It’s hard to explain without showing, but essentially what we’re helping people do is work through what we would say are the five stages of growth. So stage zero is you have not been trained on something. Stage one is to consume the information. Stage two is you put it into practice once, which is most of you will, we’ll call that massive action. But the actual best practice in that would be something called implementation intentions. If you just need to figure out exactly what you’re going to do and exactly what you’re going to do it, and then if you don’t figure that out, having a mindset of massive deductions still doesn’t help because you still haven’t figured out exactly what you’re going to do and if you don’t do that, nothing happens then then you’ve got to have a a continuously practice that, so you got to turn it into practice that’s either daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly or yearly.
If it doesn’t show up again, it doesn’t get done. Again. If it doesn’t look that again, you don’t get the results. And then from there, the fourth level is we’re helping, you know, companies are starting to deploy competency frameworks in their training and they’ve been using these idea that the idea of a competency framework for many years, but mostly it lives on a piece of paper and it doesn’t get actually implemented in practice. It’s like in theory, here’s what a great leader looks like in our organization. In theory, here are all the things that they are trained on, but because our training is not organized, it just doesn’t get done that way. So they’re attempting to do what we’re suggesting they should do but they’re not there. So then the next step is or paid somebody to be assessed against the standard for what is that behavior look like when it’s practice as well.
And you’re either making progress towards that standard or you’re at the standard itself, which is, so part of this tool is how do you help the team leader develop the team and which is something that most organizations are struggling to do. Driving that growth and development responsibility from a centralized function like HR down to the team leader level because you want somebody, we’re asking people to not consume information and I can understand concepts cause that’s something they can do on their last one to do the change their behavior. And for most people that’s incredibly hard. And so what they need as a coach and the most scalable way to bring a coach into an organization so that everybody has coaches turn the manager into the coach. And so what we’re, what we built is basically a platform for a manager to the, a growth coach for the team so that they can track a behavior change and coach along the way and give encouragement and support so that at the end of the day, they’re producing those new behaviors that the company wants in order to generate better results.
Man I love that
It’s easier to explain if there’s visuals, but at the end of the day, we’re trying to help bridge that gap between knowledge and action. And it’s sort of, that is a practice. You don’t practice the behaviors that you don’t get the results. And if you don’t, in order to practice the behaviors, you need to know exactly what those behaviors are, how to do them. So it’s a very exacting process, but it’s not complicated. Most people are just not spent the time to train her, wrestle this problem to the graph,
Right. To figure out what to, what to track and how to, how to measure it. I mean, can you give walk, I got so many questions. First of all, is this, you mentioned this was in beta right now, right? You’re testing it with a few people companies. Is there anywhere people can get material on now that we can link to? Is there a demo or anything or is it kind of behind the scenes still?
So behind the scenes? But I’m happy to put together a URL with a quick video that will walk people through a demo. I think that’s,
Oh yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And this, and this episode won’t be released for a bit, so we could do that. So probably in the show notes when this episode launches, we’ll have that ready to go. That’d be great. Yeah, there’s, there’s so much here. Who, what type of companies is this best for when you’re turning the manager into a coach? Is this, you know, like the world is your oyster, like whatever the company does, does it, is it helpful, more helpful in certain types of companies, or is it fairly universal? Are these principles that you’re helping people learn and adapt?
This is most helpful on a team level. So that’s what I would say. So this is not for like one individual on a team to improve on. It’s most helpful if eight entire team implements it. So that can be a very small company with 10 people. It can be a fortune 50 company with numerous teams and everywhere in between. So it’s more of a tool for teams, but you know, companies are basically teams of teams. And so that’s the answer to your question more directly though further a team or a company is along the journey of thinking about the problem in this way, the more helpful this tool will become because they get it and it’s really a mindset shift. And once you make the mindset shift, you need a tool to help you do it. And that’s where this tool becomes powerful. So if you’re happy just to send our content to people and have them not consume it, unless you harass them to consume it and check the box of we did the training thing that we’re supposed to do, that’s not a good, that’s not a good customer for us. A customer for us as somebody who’s actually trying to understand that what we’re doing is trying to change behavior to produce better results and that you can’t, this associate the knowledge from the action and the behaviors.
Yeah, it’s fantastic.
Yeah. So I guess what I would say to that is we’re happy to give folks a free pilot period if they want to come check it out. So let’s, let’s create a landing page video for folks explaining it to them. And if they’re interested in a, in a pilot they can sign up alone for that page and then there’ll be up and running. So it’s not working now. And you know, if you’re, if you’re a team leader who’s trying to do this kind of thing or defining what you want out of your people and then making sure that you get that out of them sort of development, then this, this could potentially be a good tool for you to give me go,
Oh that’s great. Well then they should just go to episode page and we’ll link directly to that. And then if they want to dive in, I highly recommend they become a member of the it for me program as well because there are hundreds of summaries on there. So if you want to dive in and start picking and choosing some of the books you’ve already read, I use it mostly for books I’ve already read, not for new books. Cause I, you know, I, I like to, you know, I listen to a lot on audio and I like, I like getting the full story from the author. It’s inspirational to hear, you know, the much longer version of the cheat sheet. But you’re the reader for me, summaries had been really good in reviewing books. I have read and then actually executing on some of those ideas and implementing them. So what’s, what’s the main program right now for rate it for me,
We have a lifetime offer. They continue to make and was also continuing offers on team and company plans for flat flat fees as we’ve moved from a per seat license structure on reader firmly to a team and company plan. So we got to read it for that mean they’ll, they’ll find out what those plans are and we be happy of course to have anybody who’s listening as a customer.
Awesome. Well great, man. Well I’m excited to see what comes out of that and I do think there’s some synergy so we should continue the conversation cause I would have some great companies to, to, you know, serve up to do some introductions that would love this and there’s very possibly way to integrate this within the scrimmage app and get it into the hands of people we’re already working with. So thanks for thanks for what you do. And coming on the show is great to have you here.
Yeah, it’s great to be here. Thanks for having me again.
All right. Have a good one