Organizations today have purpose statements and core values set in place, but are they effective? More often than not we are not fully committed to these company beliefs. How do we make an impact and reach everyone within the organization? Sales Leadership expert, Lisa Earle McLeod, and VP of Project Management, Elizabeth Lotardo, discuss the importance of practicing the values organization’s preach in order to make them behaviors.

1:37 – The 3 tactics of a boutique consulting firm
4:55 – What is a noble purpose?
5:53 – How to make a GREAT purpose statement
8:23 – What role do you play in your organization
10:15 – The BIG mistakes organizations make with purpose
12:41 – The difference between purpose & core values
13:02 – Making core values behaviors
17:04 – How to make sure purpose is relayed through leadership
26:12 – How to tell a customer impact story
30:15 – How FUN at work makes an impact
32:10 – The sales manager question that changes everything
34:32 – The metrics to gauge success



Leading With A Noble Purpose – Lisa Earle McLeod

Selling With A Noble Purpose – Lisa Earle McLeod

Full Transcription From Our Call (*time code may not match audio):

Todd: (03:51)
Fantastic. So what I love to do, just to give whoever’s listening or watching a, you know, little preview right up front about sort of what we’re going to get into, I think it’s really important to know who you two are and a little bit about what you do, but really focus on why, why it is you have chosen this path. And uh, you know, what really drives you to do what you, 

Lisa: (04:15)

Elizabeth: (04:17)
Cool. Well, I think you should go first because you are the, Oh, Jean McCloud and Warren. 

Lisa: (04:23)
Um, I how I got into this, we run a boutique consulting firm and uh, we do three things. We write, we do keynotes and we do consulting. That usually includes a good bit of training content. And how I got into this was I spent many years as a hired gun sales trainer. I was a sales coach for a lot of companies, sales trainer. And one of the things that I realized was underneath all those tactical training skills, there was a human essence that ended up being the make or break thing, that differentiated between average performers and exceptional performers. And I always sort of felt that and did some research on it, did some studies, big long story on that, but ended up identifying this thing called noble purpose and recognizing that that was the thing that drove top performance and also recognizing that a lot of companies don’t know how to instill that in their people. 

Lisa: (05:30)
That companies had really been down this shareholder primacy path, which is, it’s all about the numbers. It’s all about the numbers. And they just met those matters. They matter a lot, but they will never create an exceptional company. And so that was my path. And I actually, I always decide, I decided a couple of years ago I wanted to be fully transparent about this. You know, a lot of founders start their business and I’m going to start my own business and breakout. And I didn’t have that dream. I actually started my own because I was the VP of sales for a training and consulting company and I was working about 70 hours a week and I had a baby. And so I started my own business because I wanted to just stay, I wanted to be a better parent and not be a crazy person. And so I spent about a decade as, like I said, a hired gun sales trainer, hired gun sales coach, where I’d worked 10 or 12 days a month. 

Lisa: (06:20)
But I didn’t know it at that time. I was observing thousands and thousands of sales calls and thousands and thousands of coaching interactions. And I was getting in what Malcolm Gladwell would call my 10,000 hours. And so from there, the consulting firm was launched. 

Elizabeth: (06:37)
And I joined the consulting firm in 2015 I started out my career in advertising, had worked in London when mobile apps were starting to become a thing and then moved to Boston and was selling Google ad words. And at the time Lisa was doing a training project with Google on ad words and I thought it was a perfect fit and we work really well together. And that was the start of me joining the company. And since then we’ve really built out a really elaborate training program and really honed our consulting practice to help purpose, live and breathe inside organizations. 

Todd: (07:13)
That is fantastic. So is a noble purpose something that an individual has or a company or both? 

Lisa: (07:25)

Todd: (07:25)
okay. Can you talk about a little bit about the difference in what those might, well, maybe there’s no difference, but um, talk a little bit more about what it is and how you find it, right. How do you discover that or uncover it? Um, 

Lisa: (07:40)
and bring that to life for a company. And this is really crucial because a lot of companies now purpose is kind of a hot topic, but a lot of companies make a big mistake on purpose and they make it this esoteric aspirational thing without any specificity about how they affect the customer. And so a noble a noble purpose is really answers three questions. How do you make a difference? How do you do it differently than your competition and on your best day, what do you love about your job? And so what a noble purpose for a company does is it points you in the direction of your customer. So for example, our noble purpose in our company is we help leaders drive revenue and do work that makes them proud. So our whole job as a company is to help people with more money and more meaning. That’s our whole job. 

Elizabeth: (08:37)
Two parallel tracks and always at the same time, always at the same time. That’s really clear. And something we’re seeing a lot of now as sort of the evolution of purpose comes to the fore is companies making really long purpose statements. And it’s with good intentions because they don’t want to leave any customer group, any shareholder group, community employees, nobody gets left out. And the results of that, even though it’s well intended, is something that is overly verbose, kind of vague, no one. Knows it. So the work we do is focused on the singular external customer and aligning everyone. We, we help around that and in leaving space for people to connect to that purpose individually in different ways. 

Lisa: (09:18)
So another example of a great purpose statement in the bank we work with and their purpose statement is we fuel prosperity. So every market that they’re in, what a purpose should do. And there was a great HBR article on this, is it purpose should define your value proposition and it should also inform your daily activity. So your purpose is the jumping off point for your strategy. Because in the case of this bank, and they’re really public about this, it’s Atlantic capital bank and they just want the best place to work award and they’ve done amazing things and they were always a good bank. But when we worked with them on that purpose statement, we fuel prosperity. Then you start to say, Oh, so what’s the best place to do this? How are our current products doing this? Can we feel more prosperity? Here are more prosperity here. What’s going to be our market? So you start making really strategic decisions and that’s what a purpose should do. It should guide you. It should guide you into the right lane, but keep you open it up to where you can say, should we be in this market or this market? It should guide your decision making 

Elizabeth: (10:26)
on an individual level too. I mean, of course organizations make big, broad overlooking strategies, but from an individual, say you work in marketing, you’re thinking, how can I help our customers feel prosperity if you work in it? How can I enable our customers to have prosperity so you can apply this organizational purpose in lots of different ways depending on the function, right? 

Todd: (10:49)
The simplicity of it I think is really key. It’s very much a a case where less is more, right? You can have these long drawn out statements which I want to ask you about when, if ever those are important and what you call those. But real quickly I want to get the third, the third point of the um, the purpose is how you make a difference, what you do differently. And what was the third one exactly 

Lisa: (11:11)
on your best day. What do you love about your job? And that gets to the personal piece that you were talking about. So a way to think about this, where you want alignment is think about a simple Venn diagram with three circles. The organizational purpose is one, everyone should be clear. The second circle is your job. How does my job contribute to the organizational purpose? And then the third piece that you talked about is the personal purpose. How, what part do I as an individual play and not just in my role but am I the creative one? Am I the one who inspires ideas? We do. 

Elizabeth: (11:48)
How do you personally connect to the purpose, right? 

Lisa: (11:51)
And so we do a lot of training with organizations and one of the exercises that we do is, if you think about the, a lot of the personality assessments, the Myers Briggs, the five love languages, all those kinds of things, we pull out the purpose piece because everyone wants meaning in their job. Everyone wants to make a difference, but it looks different for different people. So the more clarity you have on that. So for example, I’m an idea person. So for me, I know that my, I’m at my best and highest use when I’m in an organization instigating, coming up with ideas, being really creative, 

Elizabeth: (12:27)
And I’m an executer so I’m the one that’s pushing things forward and feel most alive when I’m really making progress against a clear goal. 

Lisa: (12:35)
So you can see why we’re a good team. 

Todd: (12:37)
Yeah. Oh no, it’s fantastic. It’s, it’s a, you need both, right? You really need, 

Elizabeth: (12:42)
what’s the point? You need lots of people who experienced purpose and a lot of different ways. And I think in the purpose space, people make an assumption that you only have purpose when you’re screaming about it. And coming up with new ideas and on fire. But a lot of times the quiet people, the people who are persistent in getting things done experience a high degree of purpose as well. 

Lisa: (13:02)
Yeah. And so from an organizational standpoint, there’s a couple of mistakes that organizations make and one is with an esoteric purpose, like we make a difference. I’m in the HBR article they talked about Purina has purpose better with pets. Well that’s all well and good, but if I’m an employee, what am I supposed to do with that? 

Elizabeth: (13:23)
Or with pets, do we do better than the competition with pets? Not clear. 

Todd: (13:27)
It’s very vague and lose a lot of room for interpretation. 

Lisa: (13:31)
Well, you can’t attach to it because it’s not action oriented. We, we fuel prosperity that’s action or do something and so, and it’s clear instead of the, the mistake, one mistake is organizations make is it’s too esoteric. So we help them get really concrete. The second mistake is they don’t connect the dots for all the jobs. They don’t connect it. Behaviourally so will prosperity as Elizabeth said, how do I do IT? And then the third mistake is you need to leave some room for people to personally attach to it. And one mistake that people make is they either don’t leave that room or they say we’re all going to come up with our personal purpose statements and they don’t have the organizational umbrella. And so then you got all these people thinking that work is just about personal fulfillment when actually it is about producing and having an impact on your customer. And that is source of personal fulfillment. 

Todd: (14:31)
Yeah, it’s this great stuff. How do you, how do you compare or relate that to core values when people go through core values discovery process? I’m a huge fan of that. I was really sparked initially probably by two a two mentors of mine. One a very close personal friend and one a long distance mentor. Um, so those two are Dave Logan who wrote tribal leadership, um, and the three laws of performance and then Tony Shay from Zappos and his delivering happiness book. So one of the things you reminded me of that as you’re talking about being actionable, right? And I think one of things that Tony does very well is he takes these like commitment as a core value and right. Turns it into a actionable sentence, right? Like we do what we say we’re going to do and that’s not what of theirs, but it’s, it’s, it’s crystal clear and it’s used as verbs. It’s actionable. Right? So what’s the, what’s the difference between maybe a core value and a purpose? 

Lisa: (15:29)
So it’s interesting. I mean, she tell you, Shea, we were with a client of ours, GE ventures, and we did a trip to Zappos and we’re loved them. What the difference is a purpose is why your organization exist. It’s the impact that you want to have on customers. Your core values are the way you behave under the guard rails for behavior. And it’s interesting that you mentioned that because so many companies have like 10 or 12 core values and there are these words, courage, commitment, excellence, and they’re just wah, wah, wah. They don’t mean anything. Yeah. Everyone knows, um, famous story. Enron literally had their core values in stone, in their lobby. And one of them was integrity. So we see how that, 

Lisa: (16:15)
so one of the things we often do with organizations, our focus is on purpose. Oftentimes we find that organizations do have already have core values. Usually what we do is sometimes they’re great and we don’t need to do a thing. More often than not, they have eight or nine and we need to get them down to three or five and we need to make them behaviors become behaviors. That’s how you create that level of personal responsibility. So for example, we have some kind of different core values in our organization. And one of the things I always say about core values is they shouldn’t be easy. So for us, if we said, if we said we wanna make everything creative and fun, we wouldn’t, we don’t need to write that down. But you don’t need that reminder cause that’s been, yeah, we don’t, we don’t need to have integrity. 

Lisa: (17:08)
We want to recruit. Like that’s not a leap for us. What is neat for us is we meet people where they are and that’s one of our core values, which says even though we can see 10 steps down the road, we’re going to non-judgmentally meet people where they are and move them from where they are and that that is a personal challenge for us. So because we have people going, no, no, no business is all about the money. We want to spend this big tail and tell. And so we call down and say, yes, we will find a way to help you and make even more money and we’ll move them down that road. But that’s, that’s where core values come in is they provide the behavioral template for your, one of the exercises that we’ve done that’s really successful is when we work with leaders to turn them into behavior. We will have the senior executive team model them for a month without saying anything before we settle on them. 

Elizabeth: (18:11)
And if it was hard there, right? 

Lisa: (18:14)
Yeah. If they come back at the end of a month, we did this with one team. We had four core values and they were very behavioral and we said do these for a month. And they came back and they said we had answers up. I hit between 70 and 90% and this was really hard. But when I did it, it really worked. It was effective, really effective. 

Todd: (18:34)
And there’s probably a feeling to it, right? Like when they’re living those out, you know, it should just cause it’s hard doesn’t mean, 

Lisa: (18:42)

Todd: (18:43)
that shouldn’t dissuade them from doing it. Right. It should be like this is hard, but it’s good. Hard, right? It’s, it’s working. It feels right. 

Lisa: (18:51)
Yeah. It feels right. Like pushing through that moment of discomfort when you want to get defensive and instead of doing it, you push through and you lean in, you say, tell me more about what you mean. It’s uncomfortable, but when you, but it’s not impossible. It’s the difference between asking me to work out five days a week versus asking me to run a marathon. The second is never going to happen. The first little uncomfortable, but I could. 

Todd: (19:18)
Yup. Yup. That’s great. So how does this, if you, if you work mostly with the leadership team or the founders, how does this trickle down? Right. And when you know how and when. So, um, if it’s a company who’s just up until this point, they’ve grown quickly and there’s sort of a scattered mess and they have the five words, they plopped up on the wall very quickly. Where do you start? You start with the founder, with the CEO, with the leader, or do you loop in a lot of the key people and get contribution from all different levels? 

Elizabeth: (19:52)
That’s a great question. EY recently released a piece called, is your purpose lectured or lived? I don’t know if you read it. The disparity between the understanding of purpose at an executive level versus an employee level and which level you go down, the understanding of purpose decreases. So while we start with the executive level because you can’t have thousands of people coming up with a statement recipe for disaster, we want to make sure we cascade that down through the whole organization, through training, through content, through their leadership team, talking about it and making sure that at the end of eight 12 months the people on the front lines feel really connected to this and I think back to mistakes people are making in the purpose space as everyone starts to claim a purpose, organizations are assuming some of them that claiming it is enough and it’s, 

Lisa: (20:48)
it’s one of the things we do because our, our belief and methodology around purpose is very focused on the customer. We craft the purpose statement with the senior team if they don’t have one, but one of the things that we do in advance is we interview their salespeople and other customer facing people and their actual customers because we going to have real clarity. This should be both aspirational and concrete and true and true. It’s usually true supplies. Tell us usually, 

Todd: (21:24)
well, the Enron example, right? I mean like integrity. We stand for integrity and they’re like, yeah, let’s put that on the wall to make sure people don’t

Lisa: (21:31)
And I’m sure some people were in there drinking the Koolaid thinking, yeah, we did talk to Sharon Watkins who wrote the whistle blowing book about them. She thought they did stand for integrity until they did. But, but the thing that we want to be really clear on with our purpose statements is it’s about the impact you have on customers. And so that’s why we have to talk to customers and we have to talk to frontline people. And, and one place that we’ve seen where we do most of our training work is with sales teams because one of the things that we see is in all the work around purpose, it’s a mantra. It’s embedded in our hearts and minds. But the salespeople, the message they often get is we, we need you to close business, all this purpose stuff that’s close it. And so where the majority of our work is, so I’ll give you this bank that we started talking about. 

Lisa: (22:28)
We trained all of their sellers in a new methodology than enabled them to sit down in front of a client and identify what does prosperity look like for that client, how can I help them get there? And that’s very different from my product. How can I close this loan? How we’ve got these, we’ve got this commercial entity. And so the, the thing that I saw for decades, people have tried to do consultative selling and it only sticks with the top performers. And the reason why we finally figured out is because the sales ecosystem is all the number, the number, the number. So we have to change that sales ecosystem to be how are you feeling prosperity for your clients or whatever your purpose statement is. One of our other clients is a company called G adventures and they call on travel agents selling their trips, their adventure travel company selling the travel agents. 

Lisa: (23:26)
And so their whole purpose is to help those travel agents discover more happiness and fulfillment in their jobs at their desk while they’re booking trips. And so they can actually measure that. And they’ve had, their sales growth was 25% year over year, which great. But after they put their pointed their people towards having an impact on the agent, their sales gross went to 35%, 

Elizabeth: (23:53)
which isn’t that surprising if you’ve ever been sold to, right? Like you can read the intent of someone and you can tell who really wants to make an impact on you is you know, feeling like it’s the end of the month. But I don’t know if you really understand my goals, it’s a really different customer experience and of course it shows up in revenue production. 

Todd: (24:12)
Yeah. And I think it, I would imagine that the um, the lifetime value of the customers that are treated in that manner and who buy into the purpose of the company, not just the widget or the product, right? Like if you get that values or purpose alignment, that person is going to stick with you. Like they have much more reason to not just go, Oh, I need to get another something. I need to open a new bank account. Like, I’m just going to go on Google and look for banking account CD rates, right? So if they’re aligned with the purpose, you have an emotional connection 

Lisa: (24:49)
and it happens not just in a consumer situation. We tend to think of consumers as being the ones that are drawn to a brand for a reason. But most of our work quite candidly is in a B2B setting because what happens is if I have sat down and I have really focused on having an impact on the client, then we have a completely different relationship. And so what our data shows is salespeople close bigger deals and they close higher margin deals because it’s stickier deals, stickier deals. It doesn’t lose customer retention. And you know, I think it does. The subtlety is it’s nuanced, but the difference is dramatic. Once you point your team towards the impact on customers and, and one thing I want to be really clear on actually two things. One is we still believe in sales targets the sale. We absolutely believe in sales targets because what we say is if you had a lifesaving vaccine, you would have sales targets. You wouldn’t just Willy nilly go about what you wanted. You can have it like you would be in front of people going, you need this thing to help you. So we absolutely believe in sales targets and you know, the, it’s the, it’s the marrying of those two things that go together. When your sales targets are a reflection of your commitment to your purpose, 

Todd: (26:18)
do you find that, um, you get a little pushback from people thinking like, I either need to be driven by metrics or have this fluffy purpose driven company. Do you see that? It’s, some people make the mistake of thinking it’s one or the other. 

Elizabeth: (26:33)
Welcome to our biggest sales challenge. 

Todd: (26:36)
Okay. I figured a little 

Lisa: (26:38)
push back. Is that a lot? Because people want to separate those two things, right? Right. 

Lisa: (26:44)
Yeah. And that’s why we use the lifesaving vaccine example. If you have something that truly helps your customer, you want to apply a rigor and discipline towards deploying that. And, and the other, I said there were two things. It’s one, we believe in sales targets and to having a noble purpose doesn’t mean you cut the price. It doesn’t mean you lower your margin at all. You know, Henry Ford was very famously said, if I’d asked them what they’d wanted, they just said faster horses. Noble purpose doesn’t mean you’re reactive to the customer. It means you’re proactive to the customer and you’re figuring out what is going to be best for them and you’re creating some value to move them in that direction. Yeah, absolutely. And I think customers increasingly now the data has shown are willing to pay for a more authentic and better sales experience and they’re willing to pay for a decision that they know will stick, which is what Noble purpose enables in a sales process. 

Todd: (27:45)
You know, a lot of the experience I’ve had, um, you know, I had my own business, which I sold about eight years ago and I’ve worked in some larger companies. And one of the things that drives me crazy, sort of as a hardwired entrepreneur is when I see a total lack, an apparent total lack of ownership thinking. And people are just kind of doing the job to do the job. They’re not thinking like, what if this were my company? What if this were my money? What if this were like, what if this my life depended on, on getting the right product, doing the right thing and growing this business? And I think part of that I attribute to a disconnect between the purpose of the company and maybe lack of clarity there and the people working in it. So how do you, how do you use all this knowledge to motivate your team that might up until this point, just be doing the work, clocking in, clocking out. Like how do you like really like specific, tangible methods for getting the team onboard with this, um, and, and having that be a motivational factor and improve the company, uh, results overall. 

Elizabeth: (28:58)
One of the techniques that we teach a lot of our clients is how to tell customer impact stories. You hear a lot about storytelling these days and a lot about purpose. And this technique brings those two together. And when you tell a customer impact story, you’re not going over the typical here’s how much we closed year to close date. Here’s how long the contract is here. The deliverables you’re talking about the impact you have on them. So for an example, we were working with a foundation repair company who goes in and mocks out basements when they’d flooded and shores up the walls. So it is [inaudible] 

Todd: (29:35)
glamorous, right? 

Elizabeth: (29:37)
But so important 

Lisa: (29:41)
A lot of people, blue collar, really hard showing up every day, seven o’clock really easy to just grunt it out and get the job done and not even think. 

Elizabeth: (29:48)
So a traditional story would have been something like here’s the basement, here’s how long we have to complete it, here’s the products we’re going to need and here’s, you know who’s going to be on the project and a customer impact story is this is the Jones family and they just had new twin babies and their basement flooded when these babies were three weeks old. It’s a health risk. 

Todd: (30:09)
I am literally just visiting that. I’m getting like choked up about the difference between those two. Like 

Elizabeth: (30:17)
you are so after and you can play that story out with their names. You can talk about these kids and the health risk and the family just wants to be in their home and enjoy this time and we got to get this done fast. And that creates a level of engagement that audits back and financial targets and timelines. Justin never will. And the same is true for innovation. 

Lisa: (30:40)
Well, and you hit on a really important point when you talked about people being disengaged, some of the responsibility for that rest with the employee themselves. And you need to be able to emotionally engage in your job. But a lot of the responsibility for that and the reason we have the problem is because of leadership. You know the, the business round table, just that she, this proclamation that shareholder primacy, meaning everything we do is to create revenue per shareholders is no longer the best business model. And so compare the story Elizabeth told about the Jones family to me sitting there as a supervisor and saying, guys, we got to hit $25,000 in basements this week. We need to hit this number. I want you all to rally. We want the number one company in basements. I mean that sounds good, but really where’s all that money going to go? Yeah, it’s not going to go. To me, the worker and I don’t mean to imply it’s just 

Todd: (31:37)
That’s, that’s a really critical point. And, and I had a really hard time, like I guess because I’ve owned a company before, like that money has gone to me in the past. So I know like I’ve been in the position where I’m like, if I work 80 hours this week and get this done, like I will get rewarded. But someone is like, I don’t, I don’t get paid more if I work 50 hours or 40 this week. So why, why should I really invest the time and the mental energy 

Lisa: (32:03)
Even if you do, even if you do. And I work and I’m on an overtime thing and I worked 50 hours and I make more money and, and I’m someone that has had to support a family. So it is a noble endeavor to show up and do your job, to make money for your family. There’s no doubting that. But at the same time, at the end of the day, the money is not going to make your heartbeat faster. The way that helping out the Jones family is, it 

Elizabeth: (32:29)
It might make you feel relief, 

Lisa: (32:31)
Relief, I can pay the mortgage and you might take some pride in your growing pile of money. Money is really important 

Lisa: (32:40)
to people and part of what we’re seeing is this disconnect between CEO pay and worker pay and all of that. Having said all of those things, the difference in the conversation between me looking at you and saying, we need to do more basements this week so we can make more money and someone saying to you, these are three legal twins. These people are in a crummy hotel. We got to get this done. Yeah, that’s what’s team is going to mile and you can say for anything, our travel agent customers, these travel agents are sitting at their desk wishfully booking trips for other people. How can we make their jobs fun? We had a floral company, you know, how can we bring joy and beauty into people’s lives on a, on a day when they might not have it. I mean you can make the case anything an IT company, how can we help these people do their jobs faster so they can go home, you know, whenever it is, you would, as a leader, you paint that picture, you create a different North star for your team. And then what we do is we train the team in a, if you want to accomplish this for the customer, we need to ask a whole different set of questions. We need to present in a whole different way. It creates a whole chain link in different behaviors. Um, so like you have young children yourself and it’s the difference between you thinking I need to keep these kids contained versus you looking at your four and six year old and thinking I’m creating the next leaders of the world. Yeah, big difference. 

Todd: (34:09)
Yeah, absolutely. So I am so in love with what you do seriously and I have so many ideas of how to uh, how to integrate this already. If a, if someone listening or watching wants to sort of dip their toes in the water of this, this uh, I don’t know, journey, I guess what’s something they can do. And then also obviously I want it to be able to link to your site and any training or anything you have, but what’s something they could do maybe today after watching this? Um, just to start this type of activity in their company. 

Lisa: (34:43)
I would say tell customer impact story. You don’t have to be the CEO to tell one. You can tell them to your peers, you can tell one to your team, you can tell one to your family. And even just the art of telling it will help you feel more emotionally engaged in the work you’re doing. Takes too. And the story is how did you make a difference to the customer. So the orientation is customer impact. The thing that you can do as a leader is you can ask what we call the sales manager question that changes everything. And you want to ask your team, you know, who’s this customer, what’s the deal? When are we going to close all the normal things? But if you ask everyone on your team, how will this customer be different as a result of doing business with us? That question, will point your thinking in a totally different direction. 

Lisa: (35:32)
And one of the things that we did was in the two books that we have on this topic, which is selling with noble purpose and leading with noble purpose. We, they’re not esoteric books, they are their manuals, they are manuals, they are really concrete and like fashionable. But we lay it out because one of the things, we do a lot of consulting projects with big companies and we do a lot of trading programs. But one of the things that I was really conscious of in writing those two books was as an entrepreneur myself, I want the how to, I want the manual on exactly how to do this. And I noticed that the best business books, relationship books, parenting books said do this were that way. And so we really worked in those books to make them, if you are a party of one, here’s how you do it. And so we live in this test it, one of the things I’ve found is if you write for a couple of different readers, very specifically, and so they are written for an entrepreneur, a manager, a head of sales and a CEO. So you can, yeah, 

Todd: (36:43)
I am so impressed by the clarity you two both have with this. And you know, like a lot of things when you get this, this realization of how to do something slightly differently, it’s not, I’m going to guess it’s a radical mindset shift, but it’s not, this isn’t 10 years of work to try to change your organization. It’s like you can’t have an impact right away. Right. Um, by the things you talk, talk about and, and the simplicity that you bring to that noble [inaudible]. 

Lisa: (37:13)
Well, it only took us a decade to get it down like this, but yeah, 

Todd: (37:16)
yeah, yeah. Decade to learn. 

Lisa: (37:19)
Well, and that’s there, there are two metrics that we look for to gauge our success in an organization. And one is the revenue number. Are they delivering more revenue or more profitable revenue? And the other is employee engagement, the meaning. And so for us, the North star that we have around increasing the revenue, the way to do that is to increase the customer engagement. And the way to do that is to increase employee engagement. So where we look like this Atlanta capital as a good example, they just want to best place to work their revenue rose and their employee engagement scores rose dramatically. 

Lisa: (38:03)
awesome. Who doesn’t want to work at the bank that fuels prosperity and Wells Fargo. 

Todd: (38:11)
Yeah, I love it. I love it. Well this has been fantastic. I have a lot of good notes. Um, where is there anything else that you want to touch on before we share a little bit about where people can get your, your books, I’m assuming on Amazon and on your site, but anything else you want to touch on? That’s a top of mind for you. 

Elizabeth: (38:36)
I think as purpose takes the business conversation even more like we saw it was on the cover of HBR last quarter, EHRs, the CEO round table talking about purpose. The challenge for leaders is going to be to operationalize it and really get it into the ground water of reward station. And I think the firms that do that and really make purpose a living and breathing thing will be the ones who are in the market. 

Lisa: (38:59)
They already are purpose driven needs out perform their competition by over 350% and so as a leader, the fun part is coming up with the statement and it’s really important to get that right. Yup. Uh, well we’ve come to realize in our consulting practice is we’re how people, where they implementers, and it’s not quite as sexy, but after we do this statement, helping them, as Elizabeth said, operationalize it, get it into the groundwater of the organization. It’s not fluffy. It’s really concrete and tangible. Pulling your organization that way you create something better than you ever dreamed. 

Todd: (39:40)
Awesome. Such great stuff, Mic. Drop. Yeah, that’s just, it’s fantastic stuff. So where can anyone follow up with you or get more information? 

Elizabeth: (39:53)
So our website McCloud and More dot com if you just Google noble purpose will come up. And we also have a lot of courses on LinkedIn learning. So if you want to learn more, there’s hours and hours of video training on how to tell customer impact stories, how to differentiate in your sales process and how to lead a purpose driven organization. 

Todd: (40:11)
Yeah. Excellent. Well thank you both. Yeah, 

Lisa: (40:14)
I was just going to say, if companies, if some folks are listening to this and want to reach out, there’s a really easy contact button on our site and we are just starting, we’re doing some of the coolest things out. We’re so excited we can’t stand it. We’re doing a lot of discovery learning with learning maps and simulations with people to help them understand that mindset difference. And so if people are interested in that, they can reach out. We’re so excited about it. 

Todd: (40:36)
Oh my gosh. We’re going to have to do another episode because there’s a whole bunch of things we can get into in terms of learning. And we talked about how I’m talking with uh, Paul Zach soon and yeah, it’s just going to be great. So, all right. Thank you both so much for, uh, for your time. And your energy and uh, doing what you do. 

Lisa: (40:53)
Thank you. 

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